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Ein Wingmast wird beim Finn leider nicht in Richtung seines geringsten Widerstandes angeströmt, sondern "schräg seitlich".

Wie die o.a. Grafik zeigt, ist sein Windwiderstand also kaum geringer als beim Rundmast.


Wie sind die praktischen Erfahrungen ?

Hat der Wingmast in der Praxis Vorteile gegenüber einem Rundmast.

Angeblich sollen ja Marström-Rundmasten gar nicht so langsam sein.

2002 diskutierte die IFA das Thema Wing-Mast:



Auszug aus:

INTERNATIONAL FINN ASSOCIATION
2002 ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING

20th July 2002, Athens, Greece

Technical Committee Chairman’s Report 2002

[...]
7. Masts. Currently we have wing masts, which are expensive to build because of the very precise positioning required for the reinforcing fibres. They are also an engineering nightmare, because the wing shape is not good for resisting torsion.

At the AGM last year in Marblehead, the Technical Committee were instructed to look into the possibility of changing the rules to encourage cheaper masts. In particular, Tim Tavinor told AGM that he had been in touch with manufacturers who could sell circular section masts at about half the present price. Any action that we take must be fair to the sailors who currently own wing masts, and to the manufacturers who have spent money developing today’s “best sellers”.

There are three main options:
1. Do nothing.
2. Nominate a standard design from approved manufacturers.
3. Specify tighter restrictions on for-and-aft dimensions, so that the masts would be somewhere near round. Review requirements for athwartship dimensions;

Option 1 leaves us committed to masts, which seem un-necessarily expensive.

Option 2 would be very difficult to control, and against the practice of the class developed over many years.

Option 3 could be worded something like “the fore and aft dimension of the mast shall not exceed its athwartship dimension by more than 25 mm at any point along its length”. A way to implement this option would be to allow the new specification masts a small weight advantage, for example 7ּ5 kg. instead of 8 kg, and to allow the wing masts to continue, but not for the 2008 Olympics and major qualifying regattas from 2007 onward.

This year, I have yet again sought opinion on the whole matter, and my chief conclusion is that opinion is very varied. One potential supplier suggests that good cheap (round) Finn Masts could be made at 6.5 kg, but a major manufacturer with a track record of 400+ masts would like the current weight limit increased to 8.5 kg. Another major supplier (200+) states that his current (wing) masts weigh 7.0 – 7.5 kg before correction. Similarly a major supplier of hulls believes that the future of the class is being jeopardised by the high cost of wing masts, while a mast supplier writes “I was at the Paris boat show last December and the interest in the Finn was outstanding. I believe that is because we have a truly modern looking boat. When I watch people feeling the contours of the wing mast I realise that this is one of the facets of the modern Finn. Now that the class has accepted the cost of a wing mast I still see no reason to make a change; as they say ‘if it ain’t broke don’t fix it’.” My own conversations with club sailors suggest that they have not willingly “accepted the cost of a wing mast”.
In the light of the diverse opinions expressed within TC and the class as a whole, I recommend that we make no change until after the next Olympics. I seek support for further investigation of the Option 3 outlined above.
Votes needed on submission. (Netherlands Finn Association).

[...]

http://www.finnjolle.se/docs/117.pdf

Zum Stand der Finn-Klasse in Argentinien teilte uns Jorge Caviglia folgendes mit:

"Regarding the Finn class in Argentina, after a slow but constant growth over the last 5 years unfortunatelly currently there is not much interest.
The 7 boats around here are old plastic hulls from the late 70's/early 80's, there are just two carbon masts and the rest use alu mast (as you might know, huge difference between alu and carbon masts).
One of the big issues are the freight and import costs to buy equipment. Anything we would like to bring from Europe or the US would be very very expensive, almost prohibitive."

Argentinien ist also ein gutes Beispiel dafür, dass die Zulassung teurer Carbonmasten in einigen Ländern das Aus für die Finnklasse bedeutete.

Naja...
das hat ja wohl eher damit zu tun, dass Argentinien alles was Sie benötigen von weit her ranschaffen müssen( Wilke+Hitmasten) + Segel. ( Und da ist es ja nun zumindest frachttechnisch egal ob es nun ein Carbon-Mast ist oder ein Alumast)

Auf jeden Fall kann man Argentinien nicht mit Europa vergleichen.

Alex,

Jorge hat als Begründung nicht die Frachtkosten angegeben sondern:

"as you might know, huge difference between alu and carbon masts").

In Deutschland habe ich ebenfalls schon viele Segler gesprochen, die der Ansicht sind, dass die Preise für Carbon-Wingmasten zu hoch sind und insbesondere für jüngere Segler oftmals unbezahlbar sind.

In Argentinien geht es nicht nur um die Frachtkosten sondern auch darum, dass ein Carbon-Wingmast das Dreifache eines Alumastes kostet.

Auch bei der IFA wurde schon über die Kosten für Wingmasten, die "are expensive to build because of the very precise positioning required for the reinforcing fibres." diskutiert.

Der Technical Chairman berichtete 2002, .” My own conversations with club sailors suggest that they have not willingly “accepted the cost of a wing mast”.

Für die Finn-Klasse wäre es sicherlich besser gewesesen, wenn man bei Rundmasten geblieben wäre, die in der Herstellung wesentlich günstiger sind. "One potential supplier suggests that good cheap (round) Finn Masts could be made at 6.5 kg,"
Der Wingmast hat nämlich beim Finn kaum Vorteile gegenüber einem Rundmast, da er leider nicht in Richtung seines geringsten Widerstandes angeströmt wird.

Hi all

After having sailed my Finn both with Carbon and Alu mast, there is doubt for me that the Finn sails much better with a Carbon mast. It is actually a different boat for me and by far much more fun.
My carbon mast was a round one, it was a Marström, not sure about the build date but the previous owner said that it originally belonged to Freddy Loof.
I have never sailed with a wing mast but the cost of it and the excellent way the Finn sails with a round one, it makes me think that there is no real need for an expensive wing mast.
If alu and wing carbon mast are the extremes, then in my opinion carbon round masts are a great intermediate solution.
Not sure what is the spirit behind this discussion in Europe, but just wanted to give my two cents.

Regards

Jorge

2005 wurde der Tornado mit einem Mast aus Carbon ausgestattet. Dies hat die Performance weiter erhöht.

Diese Maßnahmen führten allerdings dazu, dass sich die Regattafelder verkleinerten, da nicht alle Segler ihr Schiff aus Kostengründen auf diesen neuen Stand ausrüsteten, aber mit der herkömmlichen Ausführung des Schiffes keine Chancen mehr auf gute Platzierungen hatten.

Quelle: Wikipedia

GER 110 wrote:

Ein Wingmast wird beim Finn leider nicht in Richtung seines geringsten Widerstandes angeströmt, sondern "schräg seitlich".

Wie die o.a. Grafik zeigt, ist sein Windwiderstand also kaum geringer als beim Rundmast.


Wie sind die praktischene Erfahrungen ?

Hat der Wingmast in der Praxis Vorteile gegenüber einem Rundmast.

Angeblich sollen ja Marström-Rundmasten gar nicht so langsam sein.

.
Mastenhersteller Antonio Latini schreibt in Finnfare:

The shape of the mast for the Finn does not have a big impact on its performance, even it has been demonstrated that a 'wing' mast is aerodynamically more efficient.
In practise this advantage is very small. The mast of the Finn does not rotate completely because because it's restricted by the boom and this fact means that the 'wing mast' does not reach the ideal angle of incidence to the wind.
Another fact is that the Finn is a very slow boat and often the air flow on the sail is not laminar.